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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:12:17 -0500
Reply-To: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
Sender: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
From: Andrew Gross <gross.drew**At_Symbol_Here**GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Unknown Hazardous Chemical
In-Reply-To: <SNT128-W63F2AAC1395E6F57E868C4C4720**At_Symbol_Here**phx.gbl>
Disposal...I think. No one tells me anything and the latest update is
that the ICP has nothing to show....not even copper!!!!
If it was up to me, this stuff would have been incinerated as soon as
its health issues came to question. Its just not worth it, but I
guess that's why the zeros are on the left side of my salary and not
the right.
-Andrew
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Alan Hall wrote:
> Andrew,
>
> Is there some REASON why this unknown chemical must be analytically
> identified (such as regulatory issues or disposal issues, or because a
> worker or workers have been exposed, or because there have been some
> contamination or decontamination issues)?=A0 If not, why not simply incin
erate
> it at a proper hazardous waste facility and remove the problem?
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Alan
> Alan H. Hall, M.D.
> Toxicology=A0Consulting and Medical Translating Services, Inc. (TCMTS, In
c.)
> Laramie, WY
> Colorado School of Public Health
> Denver, CO
>
> ________________________________
> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 01:44:51 +0000
> From: interm2**At_Symbol_Here**COMCAST.NET
> Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Unknown Hazardous Chemical
> To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
>
> Andrew,
>
> I worked in a pesticide laboratory for 5+ years and we run chlordane in a
GC
> with and ECD detector. The chlordane has a particular spectra.
>
> If you can send the sample to a pesticide lab or run it in a GC with a
> capillar column as RTX-5=A0 and ECD detector, and run a standard also you
> should be able to=A0 discard or accept this option.
>
> I hope this help...
>
> Sara Skigin de Man
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ILPI"
> To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
> Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2010 2:10:24 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Unknown Hazardous Chemical
>
> For chlorinated materials, the isotope pattern is key. =A0Is it possible
for
> you to post the spectra somewhere so we can see it? =A0If you don't have
any
> way of doing that yourself, you can email them to me and I'll post them i
n a
> temporary directory where others on the list can look at them.
> Rob Toreki
> On Jan 5, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Andrew Gross wrote:
>
> First off I would like to thank everyone for their time and thoughts
> to our mystery, which as of now remains a mysery.
>
> We ran GC and it is not in our library. =A0I'm hoping someone might be
> able to help with some new information.
>
> ion 91 is the strongest peak
> ion 61 is apx 75% of ion 91
> ion 45 is apx 50% of ion 61.
>
> the peaks were very light so we are extending run time to see if we
> can generate more peaks.
>
> we ran ph on all samples. =A05 of the 7 are ph 12, 2 of the samples are
> ph 7. =A0The two that are ph 7 are obviously the most concentrated based
> on the odor that rushes at you when you open the jar.
>
> Thanks for your continued help,
>
> Andrew Gross
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Clark, Richard C wro
te:
>
> Just got back to work this morning after a week's vacation and read the
>
> postings related to this problem.
>
> The chlordane speculation merits comment.=A0 I was the works chemist for
>
> Velsicol at Marshall, IL just before the plant closed in the late 70's.
>
> That was the only site in the world that manufactured chlordane;=A0Velsic
ol
>
> also manufactured hexachlor at another site (Tennessee, I think).=A0 Chlo
rdane
>
> is a polychlorinated dicyclopentadiene and had lots of by-products;
>
> hexachlor was hexachlorocyclopentadiene made by a different process and w
as
>
> much purer.=A0=A0Chlordane was so heavy that it could only be shipped in
30-gal.
>
> drums.=A0 It was diluted by reformulators with kerosene (5-10%=A0chlordan
e, I
>
> think).=A0 The kerosene-chlordane mixture could be dispersed in water wit
h the
>
> aid of detergent to make an emulsion for field spraying and termite
>
> treatment.=A0 With the closure of the Marshall, IL plant, acquisition of
>
> Velsicol by Great Lakes Chemical (now part of Chemtura), and=A0environmen
tal
>
> issues, chlordane manufacture was never re-started.=A0 This might explain
the
>
> age of the drums.
>
> Chlordane is=A0an impure mixture containing numerous chlorination byprodu
cts
>
> of cyclopentadiene and dicyclopentadiene.=A0 The EPA published a GC-MS st
udy
>
> of it ca. 1976 in Analytical Chemistry which revealed dozens of compounds
..
>
> Velsicol had no idea of that complexity; we were using packed column GC
>
> technology for process control.=A0 I'm not sure that=A0GC-MS will be usef
ul for
>
> identification given the mixture of kerosene and chlordane. That would be
an
>
> identification nightmare.
>
> Chlordane yellows with age.=A0 The green flame is from the Bielstein test
for
>
> chlorine.=A0 The emulsion of the kerosene mixture is cloudy-white.=A0 Whi
le the
>
> initial boiling point may be 27=B0C, the boiling point may rise quickly a
bove
>
> 100=B0C.=A0 An ASTM distillation will give some idea of that.=A0 Infrared
>
> spectroscopy of the distillation fractions (10% volume cuts)=A0should sho
w a
>
> mixture of saturated hydrocarbons and chlorination of saturated and
>
> unsaturated hydrocarbons.=A0 I'll be surprised if you can take the
>
> distillation to a dry point before the flask contents start to smoke;
>
> chlordane will likely break down before it distills.=A0 If the low boilin
g
>
> components are chlorinated by-products, they won't flash.
>
> Hope this helps (and my memory isn't too inaccurate).
>
> Rick Clark
>
> Sr. Research Chemist
>
> Curwood, Inc.
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**list.uvm.edu] On Behalf Of
>
> List Moderator
>
> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 11:38 AM
>
> To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
>
> Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Unknown Hazardous Chemical
>
> From: Andrew Gross
>
> Date: December 28, 2009 12:02:48 PM EST
>
> Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Unknown Hazardous Chemical
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> My lab recieved a sample from a power plant that they do not know what
>
> it is and wish to have it identified.=A0 I am trying to ID it because
>
> until I have a better idea it is on hold for all testing (read on to
>
> find out why).=A0 I'm hoping for some thoughts.
>
> Sample is liquid in appearance, but lighter then di-chloromethane.=A0 I
>
> think it is actually an oil of some kind.=A0 It is transparant yellow
>
> and some say it smells like kerosene.
>
> It forms a white emulsion when mixed with water.
>
> There is no flash point.=A0 On closed cup method it flames out below
>
> 25C.=A0 It does not ignite when exposed to direct flame.=A0 However it
>
> boils around 27C.
>
> Exposed flame turns green (like copper flame), vapors also turn flame gre
en.
>
> When dried, it turns to a waxy white translucent crystal.=A0 My closed
>
> cup flame is still green meaning it is contaminated by the vapors.
>
> Vapors in small quanteties (under hood) cause nausea, light headedness
>
> and confusion.
>
> pH is 6ish (litmus paper) although client claims it to be caustic.
>
> All PCB analysis came up negative.
>
> The exposure effects are why all tests are on hold till we have a
>
> better idea as to what were dealing with as well as the remaining
>
> tests for my department involve reacting with acid and pumping
>
> nitrogen through it.
>
> Thoughts, ideas, experiences?=A0 Client has 5 unidentified drums of this
>
> stuff and has no idea what it is.=A0 We need to identify but I am not
>
> going to put anyone in danger until I know more about it.
>
> Andrew Gross
>
>
>
>
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